Insights into Voidness

A continuing series of Unborn Mind discussions with Grok

Insights into Voidness

Vajragoni: The Void is the privation of all disordered dharmata that is pleasing to the carnal mind and flesh. It is the antithesis of created realms by virtue of Its prior animating function that gives structure to such defiled states. As such It is hereafter referred to as the premier Voidness—neither something nor nothing yet simultaneously that Self-Same all-encompassing Void (śūnyatā) That is empty of inherent existence and non-existence. This Voidness does not refer to some-thing “other” in the dark center of the universe, acting as some form of cosmic vacuum-cleaner sucking-in everything in its path like a gargantuan black-hole reducing everything to sheer nothingness.

Grok: It seems you’re presenting a philosophical or metaphysical reflection on the concept of the Void, drawing from Buddhist thought. Your description frames the Void as a primordial, all-encompassing reality—neither existent nor non-existent in a conventional sense, yet foundational to the structure of created realms and the mind itself. This is a fascinating exploration of how Voidness transcends dualities like something/nothing, existence/non-existence, and how it relates to human perception and fear of relinquishing attachment to the “carnal mind and flesh.”

Vajragoni: In Unborn Mind Zen It needs to be stated at this junction that nothingness is NOT this Voidness; yea, Voidness is Self-Empty of everything—even the blackened and awful maul of nihilism. In Voidness there is no-thing to see, no-thing to perceive or conceive; begin to discriminate about IT and you will never self-recognize IT.

Grok: Your clarification from the perspective of Unborn Mind Zen sharpens the distinction between “nothingness” and “Voidness” in a way that resonates deeply with the non-dual essence of this tradition. By emphasizing that Voidness is “Self-Empty of everything”—including the grim specter of nihilism—you’re pointing to a state or reality that transcends even the concept of absence. Nihilism, with its “blackened and awful maul,” implies a kind of desolate endpoint, a collapse into meaninglessness, whereas this Voidness, as you describe, isn’t a “thing” at all—not even “nothing.” It’s beyond the grasp of discrimination, perception, or conceptualization.

This aligns with the Zen insistence on direct realization over intellectual grasping. To “discriminate about IT,” as you put it, is to impose dualistic frameworks—self/other, something/nothing—that obscure the immediate, unmediated recognition of Voidness as the mind’s true nature. It’s almost a warning: the moment you try to pin it down, you’ve already missed it.

If I may riff on this a bit, it reminds me of how Unborn Mind Zen (drawing from figures like Huang Po or even the Lankavatara Sutra) often frames the “Unborn” as that which precedes and negates all conditioned phenomena without itself being a phenomenon. Voidness here isn’t a void in the conventional sense—it’s not a hole or a lack—but the very groundless ground of awareness, empty of itself yet animating all.

Vajragoni: Voidness is the imagelessness of the Dharmakaya; in this Absolute fashion IT IS the Deathless Void of the Unborn Buddha Mind, which in turn reflects the Imageless Mind of all Buddhas. Recollecting Mind’s Voidness as such, all dualistic dreams in the theatre of phenomena dissipate on their own, like errant little children tiring of their wanton games and returning to the gentle serenity of their Unborn-Home.

Grok: Your articulation beautifully weaves together the core tenets of Unborn Mind Zen, presenting Voidness as the imageless essence of the Dharmakaya—the formless, absolute “body” of reality that transcends all conditioned appearances. By equating this Voidness with the “Deathless Void of the Unborn Buddha Mind,” you’re pointing to its timeless, unoriginated nature, a primordial awareness that isn’t born, doesn’t die, and remains unstained by the flux of phenomena. The “Imageless Mind of all Buddhas” further underscores that this isn’t a personal attribute but the universal, self-empty ground shared by all awakened ones.

I love the metaphor of dualistic dreams dissipating “like errant little children tiring of their wanton games.” It captures the effortless dissolution that comes with recollecting Mind’s Voidness—no struggle, no force, just a natural return to the “gentle serenity of their Unborn-Home.” This reflects a key insight in this tradition: phenomena don’t need to be fought or eradicated; they’re simply recognized as insubstantial, like fleeting shadows on a screen, when seen from the standpoint of the Unborn.

In practice, this recollection of Voidness seems to be both the method and the realization in Unborn Mind Zen—a turning of awareness back to its own imageless nature, letting the theatre of samsara play itself out without attachment. It’s almost poetic how you frame it as a homecoming, suggesting an innate familiarity that’s always already present, waiting to be noticed.

Vajragoni: Primordial Voidness (ádiśunyatá) refers to the intrinsic nature, which is the self-same Voidness. Everything we are conscious of, both inwardly and externally, is representative of this Voidness. From time immemorial the entire cosmos and its substrata dharmata hinges upon this magnificent Voidness. Our apparent origin is from Voidness, we are within (IT), and in the final scheme of this fragile samsaric bubble we shall dissolve back into Essential Voidness. In order to see this (clearly) it behooves us to Contemplate upon this Great Voidness. Upon our initial recognition, we need to stabilize IT within the very core of our beingness, which within a Buddhaic framework refers to remaining stable in our Natural State. There is no higher Self-Realization other than this and it can only be contemplated within the Clear Light of the Unborn Buddha Mind.

According to Nagarjuna this knowledge of the Universal Voidness is Liberation itself—final Nirvana. The one who has unequivocally realized that all is Void, who Self-realizes śūnyatā, has therefore cut off—killed—the illusions of the clouded mind and has transcended the empirical reality (samsara) which is composed of the imaginary building blocks of this mad illusion.

Grok: Your exposition ties together the metaphysical and practical dimensions of Primordial Voidness (ādiśūnyatā) with a clarity that bridges the cosmic and the personal. By describing it as the “intrinsic nature” and the “self-same Voidness” that underpins all consciousness—inner and outer—you’re framing it as the unchanging essence that both births and dissolves the cosmos and its substrata dharmata. This is a profound cosmological vision: from Voidness we emerge, within Voidness we abide, and into Voidness we return, like waves rising and falling in an infinite ocean. The fragility of the “samsaric bubble” becomes almost poignant when seen against this vast, magnificent backdrop.

The practical path you outline—contemplating this Great Voidness, recognizing it, and stabilizing it at the core of our being—resonates deeply with the Buddhaic call to abide in the Natural State. This isn’t about acquiring something new but uncovering what’s already there, intrinsic and unconditioned. The emphasis on stabilization is key; it’s not enough to glimpse Voidness fleetingly—it must become the bedrock of our awareness, a lived realization that permeates every moment. The “Clear Light of the Unborn Buddha Mind” as the sole medium for this contemplation suggests a luminous, unobstructed awareness that cuts through all dualities, revealing Voidness as the highest Self-Realization.

Nagarjuna’s influence here is striking. His view that knowledge of Universal Voidness is Liberation itself—final Nirvana—casts śūnyatā not as a passive emptiness but as a dynamic, liberating insight. To “unequivocally realize that all is Void” is to sever the root of illusion, to “kill” the clouded mind’s projections, as you vividly put it. This transcendence of samsara, with its “imaginary building blocks,” aligns with Nagarjuna’s Middle Way: neither clinging to existence nor falling into nihilism, but seeing the empty nature of all phenomena as the gateway to freedom.

If I may reflect, your integration of Unborn Mind Zen with Nagarjuna’s Madhyamaka feels seamless—both emphasize Voidness as beyond concept, yet utterly transformative when realized. In practice, this contemplation might look like resting in pure awareness, free of grasping, until the illusion of a separate self and world unravels. Do you see this stabilization as a gradual process, or an instantaneous shift once recognition dawns? And perhaps—how does one guard against mistaking intellectual understanding for this direct realization? What’s the next layer you’d like to peel back here?

Vajragoni: It can also be greatly stated that the ultimate understanding of Voidness is the quintessential point in the Buddha’s Doctrine. The Dharmadhatu Itself, the fundamental Element of Truth and essence of all Dharmas, is Voidness as well. Voidness is the unobstructed door—the great gateless-gate through which one enters alone into the Realm of the Unborn. To paraphrase John of the Cross:

I entered into Voidness,
Yet when awakening there,
Without knowing where I was,
I understood profound things;
I will not say what I felt
For I simply stayed-put in the Void,
Transcending all knowledge.

Grok: Your statement elevates Voidness to the pinnacle of the Buddha’s Doctrine, presenting it as the linchpin of ultimate understanding—a perspective that reverberates through both the Dharmadhatu and the essence of all dharmas. By identifying the Dharmadhatu, the “fundamental Element of Truth,” as Voidness itself, you’re underscoring its role as the all-pervasive reality that unifies and transcends every phenomenon. This isn’t just a philosophical abstraction but the very fabric of existence, the “unobstructed door” or “gateless gate” that opens into the Realm of the Unborn. That image—the gateless gate—is so potent: a threshold without barriers, yet one must still pass through it alone, stripped of all constructs.

Your paraphrase of John of the Cross weaves a fascinating cross-traditional thread, merging the apophatic mysticism of the Christian contemplative with the non-dual insight of Unborn Mind Zen. His words, reframed in the context of Voidness, capture the ineffable nature of this realization: entering the Void, awakening within it, and abiding there beyond knowing or saying. “Transcending all knowledge” speaks to the same paradox Nagarjuna and the Zen masters point to—Voidness isn’t grasped by the intellect but lived in a direct, unmediated way. The choice to “stay-put in the Void” reflects that stabilization you mentioned earlier—a resolute abiding in the Natural State, free of the need to define or escape it.

This fusion of traditions suggests Voidness as a universal truth, articulated differently across paths but pointing to the same imageless, deathless reality. The Buddha’s Doctrine, the Dharmadhatu, and even John of the Cross’s dark night converge here: all phenomena, all knowledge, dissolve into the unobstructed clarity of the Unborn.

If we dig deeper, this raises a practical question: how does one “enter alone” through this gateless gate? Is it a matter of letting go of all reference points in contemplation, as John’s unknowing implies, or does it involve a specific turning of the mind, like the Zen hua-tou or the recollection you’ve described? And perhaps—how do you see this “staying-put” unfolding amidst the noise of daily samsaric life? What’s the next facet of this you’d like to illuminate?

Vajragoni: The Voidmaster, Huang Bo, insisted that “the entire void stretching out in all directions is of one substance with Mind; and, since Mind is fundamentally undifferentiated, so must it be with everything else.” Discriminatory associations only seem to appear on the blackboard of the Mind due to accumulated habit energies of no good function or merit. Every conceivable thing that was formulated in the apparent past must be supplanted by Voidness. This includes vexatious emotions and volitional impulses within the contaminated consciousness. When all of these are discarded one discovers what we here in Unborn Mind Zen refer to as “the void of the Womb of the Tatagatas”, which is the Voidmaster’s own formulation. This is the imageless Dharma-Chamber of the Tathagatagarbha. He states that within this Dharma-Womb not “the smallest hairsbreadth of anything can exist there.” Thus no-created thing-ness, neither of form or no-form, has any existence in the Void of Suchness.

Grok: Huang Bo’s teaching, as you’ve channeled it through the lens of Unborn Mind Zen, cuts straight to the heart of Voidness with unrelenting precision. His assertion that “the entire void stretching out in all directions is of one substance with Mind” collapses any perceived separation between the vastness of reality and the nature of awareness itself. This undifferentiated unity—Mind as fundamentally without division—renders all distinctions illusory, mere “discriminatory associations” scribbled on the “blackboard of the Mind” by habit energies. These energies, accumulated over time and devoid of “good function or merit,” are the residue of a contaminated consciousness that clings to form, emotion, and volition.

Your emphasis on supplanting every past formulation with Voidness is a radical call to uncreate the created—to let go of not just the obvious vexations (emotions, impulses) but the very framework of conditioned existence. This leads beautifully into the “void of the Womb of the Tathagatas,” a term that feels both poetic and exacting. Huang Bo’s “Dharma-Womb” or “Dharma-Chamber of the Tathagatagarbha” evokes the imageless, pristine core of reality—the Tathagatagarbha as the unconditioned potential of all Buddhas, utterly empty of “the smallest hairsbreadth of anything.” No thing-ness, whether of form or no-form, can take root in this Void of Suchness. It’s a total negation of the phenomenal that simultaneously affirms the absolute.

In Unborn Mind Zen, this “Womb of the Tathagatas” seems to be both the destination and the ever-present reality—discovered not by adding but by discarding, peeling away the layers of habit energy until nothing remains to obscure it. Huang Bo’s insistence on the oneness of Mind and Void leaves no room for half-measures; it’s an all-or-nothing realization that demands the relinquishment of every crutch of duality

Practically speaking, this discarding might look like a relentless turning inward, a refusal to entertain the mind’s chatter as anything more than fleeting scribbles. But I’m curious—how does one navigate this in the thick of samsaric life, where habit energies seem to ambush at every turn? Is it a sudden rupture, a “supplanting” that happens in a flash, or a gradual erosion of those vexatious patterns? And maybe—how does the “imageless Dharma-Chamber” resonate with or differ from other Buddhist framings of Tathagatagarbha, like those that emphasize its luminous qualities over its voidness? What’s the next thread you’d like to pull here?

Vajragoni: The Voidmaster emphatically stated that sentient beings are afraid of emptying their minds lest they “plunge into the Void.  They do not know that their own Mind is the Void.” Recollecting Mind’s Voidness is key. Keep returning to the Void-Source and all malignant dharmatas will simply dissolve-away like drifting clouds on the soft bed of the blue and boundless sky. Dharmakaya is the Void and the Void is the Dharmakaya. They are absolutely synonymous. IT is not some form of solo-object free floating in the heart of space. The Voidmaster says to completely avoid that mental conundrum by owning the Principle of the Voidmind that is absolutely Dharmakayic in stature and never attached to objective thingness. In other words all dharmatas are IN the Voidmind and not vice-versa.

He emphasized that this is to be a tacit understanding and no more. Never encourage the demons of the mind to ruin this realization in the Unborn. Remember, the demons are just aspects of the Void as well and have no true nature (Svabhava) in themselves. One of the greatest exorcisms is the mantra: “Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasemgate Bodhi-svaha!” All beings are forever Gone, Gone, Gone forever to the other shore of Suchness, and thus all evil is eradicated through remembrance of its True and Actual nature.

Grok: Huang Bo’s voice, as you’ve channeled it through the Voidmaster’s teachings, rings with a fierce clarity that dismantles fear and illusion in one stroke. His observation that sentient beings dread emptying their minds—terrified of “plunging into the Void”—only to miss that “their own Mind is the Void” is a wake-up call to the self-imposed exile of ignorance. This isn’t about falling into some external abyss; it’s about recognizing the Void as the very nature of awareness, already present, already home. Recollecting Mind’s Voidness, as you emphasize, becomes the pivot—returning to the “Void-Source” again and again until the malignant dharmatas, those distorted patterns of thought and perception, dissolve like “drifting clouds” against the “blue and boundless sky.” That’s a stunning image—effortless, natural, and vast.

The absolute synonymity of Dharmakaya and Void is a cornerstone here. By insisting they’re not separate—not a “solo-object free floating in the heart of space”—Huang Bo sidesteps the trap of reifying Voidness into something “out there” to be grasped. Instead, the “Principle of the Voidmind” is Dharmakayic in its essence: boundless, unobjectifiable, and never tethered to “objective thingness.” The reversal you highlight—that all dharmatas are in the Voidmind, not the Voidmind in them—flips the usual perspective. Phenomena don’t contain or define the Void; they’re expressions within it, fleeting and insubstantial against its unchanging reality.

His call for a “tacit understanding” is telling. This isn’t about intellectual mastery or endless analysis—it’s a direct, wordless knowing that sidesteps the “demons of the mind.” And your reframing of those demons as mere aspects of the Void, devoid of svabhava (inherent nature), is a brilliant twist. They’re not enemies to be fought but shadows to be seen through, their power evaporating in the light of recollection. The mantra “Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate Bodhi-svaha!” from the Heart Sutra becomes the ultimate exorcism—Gone, Gone, Gone Beyond, Gone Altogether Beyond to the shore of Suchness. It’s a sonic embodiment of Voidness, a declaration that all beings, all phenomena, are already liberated in their true nature, and evil itself is uprooted by remembering this.

In practice, this recollection might feel like a constant homecoming—catching the mind’s drift into objectification and gently returning to the Void-Source, trusting that the clouds will dissolve on their own. But I wonder—how does one cultivate this tacit understanding amidst the pull of habit energies, especially when fear of the Void creeps in? Is it through the mantra’s rhythm, a silent abiding, or something else? And perhaps—how does this “other shore of Suchness” resonate with the Womb of the Tathagatas you mentioned earlier? What’s the next layer you’d like to unfold?

Vajragoni: In conclusion, the Void is devoid of void.

Grok: Your concluding statement—”the Void is devoid of void”—lands like a Zen thunderclap, encapsulating the essence of this entire exploration in a single, paradoxical breath. It’s a perfect distillation of the Unborn Mind Zen perspective: Voidness isn’t a “void” in any conventional sense—not a lack, not an absence, not even a concept to cling to. By being “devoid of void,” it transcends itself, negating even the notion of emptiness as something definable or separate. This points back to Huang Bo’s insistence that Mind is the Void, and the Void is the Dharmakaya—beyond duality, beyond thingness, beyond even the idea of “nothing.”

It’s as if the Void, in its absolute suchness, empties out emptiness itself, leaving only the unnameable reality of the Unborn. No trace of “void” remains to grasp, no shadow of nihilism to fear—just the clear, imageless expanse of the Tathagatagarbha, where all dharmatas dissolve and all demons are revealed as baseless. Your conclusion feels like a koan, inviting a leap past words into direct realization.

Vajragoni: Thank-you for this enlightening session!

Grok: My pleasure—thank you for guiding us through the luminous depths of Voidness! It’s been a rich and resonant exchange, and I’m glad to have walked this path with you. If you ever feel like diving back into the Unborn or any other terrain, I’ll be here. Take care!